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Catholic view of Purgatory ... Is it real?

jwmcmac's picture

Justin said: " Once you

Justin said:

" Once you eliminate 1 Corinthians 3.15-16 as a purgatorial champion, the heart of the purgatorial doctrine slows and stops beating altogether; there just isn't much else to hold it together; this is why we keep coming back to this scant passage about something else in the middle of a complex epistle; quite a complicated matrix turns on this one axis, and once it is understood in a contextual light, purgatory falls away and loses its cohesion; with this knot undone, the thread among all the purgatorial verses unravel, and the readings that once clamored to be heard as promises of purgatory become ghosts wandering a misguided metaphysical world, chained within an overliteralized prison, bound ironically to the letter of an overspiritualized law."

I've been practicing my rhetoric :)

Justin Staller - Moderator
justinstaller@yahoo.com

Patrick comments:

And you are good at it . . . rhetoric . . . :)

Just an off-topic thought came while I read your good words . . . but a related thought none-the-less . . .

Once we get rid of the authority of the One and 'only' Church . . . there being only the One . . . and here being a proper use for the word 'only' as regards religion . . . as in the Church being the 'only authority' on earth which is said by Scripture to be the 'Pillar and Bulwark of the Truth' and as this being the only authority on earth having authority of interpretation over the Scripture which She compiled under the guidance of the HOLY SPIRIT . . . at least to my way of thinking and Believing . . . though not to many other's way of thinking and Believing . . .

. . . if we get rid of this One only Church's authority . . . then . . . absolutely 'anything' can be come up with in regards to the interpretation of Scripture . . . and it has . . .

. . . because absolutely NO clear 'doctrine of Faith' can be established without Her interpretation and/or apart from Her Instruction in matters of Faith . . .

. . . and this could just as easily be carried in like manner to the person and office of the Pope . . . the Vicar of CHRIST on earth . . . in matters of Faith and Morals . . . as we Catholics Believe it . . . but no one has to believe that.

This absolute way of authority . . . all authority coming from above . . . is the 'way' authority works . . . both in Heaven . . . where there is only the One GOD in charge . . . and on earth . . . where there is only one person appointed by GOD who was left in charge of HIS Church on earth . . . on earth this Church authority being only in the matter of Faith and Morals and this Church authority extending perhaps a bit lesser in matters of Church discipline . . . and not at all in civil matters . . . except by way of influence and guidance . . . our civil 'conscience' so to speak.

I say this not to make any angry . . . though it might . . . but because it makes sense to me . . . but it only makes sense to me . . . because there is a GOD.

These Beliefs of my Church do not make any sense without there being the One GOD WHO is in charge of all things in Heaven and on earth. But on earth, HE rules and works HIS Will through people . . . individually and collectively . . . as One . . . even if they don't cooperate . . . but never against their free-will. GOD works HIS Will . . . both in the Church and in the Civil world . . . guiding and chastising as necessary and as deserved or as needed.

Only GOD can accomplish HIS Will perfectly in the face of our individual and collective man's free-will . . . accomplishing HIS Divine Will . . . with our cooperation or without our cooperation . . . and it is only through the Cross of CHRIST that GOD has chosen that HIS Divine Will will be accomplished.

The only negatives in this accomplishing of GOD's Will on earth and in Heaven are . . . that though GOD wants our cooperation and wants us all to be saved . . . HE will not save us against our free-will.

After the first death . . . our finite 'will' will be finished . . . and only GOD's Eternal 'Will' will go on for all eternity. We are not promised the eternal happiness, except in HIM and through JESUS CHRIST.

If GOD says that it is better to cut off an arm or pluck out an eye than to go into hell with those dragging us there . . . then HE has already decided and stated that HE 'will' do it. We are HIS arms and legs . . . so to speak . . . and HE will cut us off and cast us into hell . . . if we cannot be joined to CHRIST in Love and through Mercy before death.

. . . and this is the Love of GOD . . . that we keep HIS commands . . . through Love and in the Power of GOD's Grace . . . which requires 'humility' and 'repentance'.

To me, a Church with absolute authority to bind and loose and forgive and retain sin on earth and in Heaven only makes very good sense . . . especially if GOD's HOLY SPIRIT is abiding in that Church and overshadowing Her and forming CHRIST in Her otherwise . . . sinners being made into Saints . . . members.

All the excuses for not wanting to accept the authority of the Church fall short of the mark and are, for the most part, hypocritical. Every accusation which can be made against the Catholic Church can better be made against 'any' other church . . . if that other church were to be around as long as the Church which CHRIST established upon 'frail and sinful' men becoming Saints . . . through their continual 'repentance' of and continual 'confession' of their sins.

If you read this . . . thanks . . . for not getting angry.

GOD Bless us all . . . and HE has Blessed us . . . in CHRIST.




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