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Catholic view of Purgatory ... Is it real?

michael_legna's picture

What does it take to be with or without Christ?

Michael said,
If you require that forgiveness is dependent on a complete and completely accurate understanding of theology then your position does not differ from that some Protestants like to accuse the RCC of - that of condemning anyone who doesn't agree with their understanding. The difference is the RCC does not do this and you seem to.

Mike says,
Why you would say such a thing?

I am sorry I said "seem to" because to me it seemed that your questions implied you did not feel they could have their sins forgiven without knowing about the crucifixion. If you did not mean to imply that and were simply asking questions with no preconceived notion of their answer then I apologize.

Mike said -
My belief is such that once the Holy Spirit convicts a person of sin, whether they are catholic, protestant or muslim, the journey begins. (John 16:8-9)

There is conviction of sin.

There is a sensed need of forgiveness.

God introduces His grace by the Word,

Convicted sinner learns of Christ.

Convicted sinner asks Christ for forgiveness.
New Life is given.

So how can a "moslem" be a follower of Him without knowing about Him (Jesus)?

How can a "moslem" ask forgivness of sin without the cross?

If anyone sensed condemnation because of that, then perhaps it is the Holy Spirit at work?

Based on this it does sound to me like you do not believe someone can be saved without knowing about the crucifixion - which is all my point was above. But I don't want to assume so please tell me do you believe it is possible to be forgiven for ones sins and be saved without knowing about the crucifixion? If not is this not a form of condemnation equal to or more direct than the RCC comments on Protestants they are always called to task on?

Mike said -
After all, without Christ, that is exactly where man stands .. condemned.. The message of the Gospel provides an escape from that condemnation.

But you are equating not knowing of the existence of a first century carpenter or of the crucifixion as the same as being without Christ. I don't accept that and I don't see anything in scripture that supports that idea.

I am sorry maybe I am just misunderstanding you - perhaps if you told me what it take to be with or without Christ in your view then your comments might make more sense to me. As they stand right now it sounds to me like you do not think anyone can be saved without knowing of Jesus as a man, and His sacrifice. That following His teachings are less important than mentally accepting a few facts and that the merit of the sacrifice cannot be applied to anyone who does not know of this historical event. Please correct me if I have your position wrong.

But I realize we have gotten way off topic since none of this relates to Purgatory since it is not a salvation issue.