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Christ removes all barriers to catholicity of His church through faith

JeffLogan's picture

Thinking about Christ and how He breaks down all barriers and spoils all principalities and powers which prevent true universality, true catholicity, of His body, the church...

Has anyone ever considered that a living faith is not achieved by adding our works to our faith but rather, that faith is a gift from God which being quickened by the Holy Spirit produces obedience (good works)? (The keyword here is "quickened". It would serve you well to consult your Strong's Concordance.)

Think about this verse and tell me what it means:

    And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. -Acts 5:32 (KJV)

But first, before you answer, tell me what this means to demonstrate your wisdom:

    "Love means never having to say you're sorry." (Love Story, The movie.)

Does it mean...

    1) Love does nothing to warrant an apology

    2) Love takes no account of injury

    3) Other (explain)

Now answer the verse in question:

    And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. -Acts 5:32 (KJV)

Does it mean...

    1) God only gives His Holy Spirit to those who obey Him

    2) God gives His Holy Spirit to men so they might obey Him

    3) Other (explain)

This is a discovery exercise and not a theological debate. Opinions are welcomed but scriptural support would be even better. Be sure to interpret your scriptures so we can understand how you are using them. Commentaries may be insightful but a paraphrase in your own words would be appreciated and would demonstrate you understand your subject matter.

jwmcmac's picture

Jeff posted the

Jeff posted the following:

"A reply to: Jeff posted a reply to: A
Submitted by JeffLogan on Mon, 2010-02-15 16:37.

A reply to: Jeff posted a reply to: A
Submitted by jwmcmac on Mon, 2010-02-15 08:10.

JW admits, "Even you, Jeff, can know the Truth on your own with the help of the HOLY SPIRIT . . ."

Jeff said:

"Yes, this is what Jesus promised when He promised the Comforter."

jwmcmac said:

Yes . . . this is what JESUS promised . . . but HE did this without excluding the Church from this. So, neither should we exclude Her part in this, HIS Work and the Work of HIS HOLY SPIRIT.

JW writes, "We can believe whatever we want . . . with all the consequence . . . that goes with it."

Jeff said:

"Yes, and as a Catholic there would be consequences--unless of course you kept it secret."

jwmcmac comments:

Oh . . . sometimes that might be true . . . depending on if you are dealing with a 'wolf' or with a 'Lamb'.

I never said 'obedience' is always easy. Sometimes, it can be quite 'difficult'.

Obey in all things but sin . . . I Hope you know what is the difference . . . I am not talking doctrine . . . per se.

Jeff said:

(But then I don't understand why Senators and Congressmen can vote against the Church their entire carriers and remain in good standing? It reminds me of another story about a divorce between a doctor and his wife. The doctor had a girlfriend and moved her into his house. The wife, in bitterness, informed the church. The church in turn asks the wife to leave while retaining the doctor in his current church positions. Tell me, is it the money? What causes men to turn a blind eye to justice? Why are evil men retained in church positions when scripture plainly tells us to remove them from our midst? God may not respect persons, but man sure does.)

jwmcmac comments:

If what you say is True . . . I'm with you on that one, Jeff.

We do have some errant priests in the Church . . . but really . . . I do not know all the circumstances . . . and probably you do not really know either . . .

. . . but as you have portrayed it . . . you are entirely correct in what you have said as to this being entirely an injustice.

I do not know any priest who would get away with such as you describe . . . but there are some modern wrong thinkers and believers even amongst those in the Church . . . but they would do this . . . as at Notre Dame - when the errantly 'honored' O'Bama, the most pro-abortion President ever in history . . . in error . . .

Likewise, it is still an ongoing 'scandal' in the Church as to the Catholic Politicians 'getting away with it' that they are anything but Catholic in all that they say, think and do as Politicians.

If the Church cannot manage to 'correct' this scandal . . . then one day . . . GOD surely will . . . but it may be our entire country to pay the price for our collective sins.

GOD Bless you and us all.