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Christ removes all barriers to catholicity of His church through faith

JeffLogan's picture

Thinking about Christ and how He breaks down all barriers and spoils all principalities and powers which prevent true universality, true catholicity, of His body, the church...

Has anyone ever considered that a living faith is not achieved by adding our works to our faith but rather, that faith is a gift from God which being quickened by the Holy Spirit produces obedience (good works)? (The keyword here is "quickened". It would serve you well to consult your Strong's Concordance.)

Think about this verse and tell me what it means:

    And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. -Acts 5:32 (KJV)

But first, before you answer, tell me what this means to demonstrate your wisdom:

    "Love means never having to say you're sorry." (Love Story, The movie.)

Does it mean...

    1) Love does nothing to warrant an apology

    2) Love takes no account of injury

    3) Other (explain)

Now answer the verse in question:

    And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. -Acts 5:32 (KJV)

Does it mean...

    1) God only gives His Holy Spirit to those who obey Him

    2) God gives His Holy Spirit to men so they might obey Him

    3) Other (explain)

This is a discovery exercise and not a theological debate. Opinions are welcomed but scriptural support would be even better. Be sure to interpret your scriptures so we can understand how you are using them. Commentaries may be insightful but a paraphrase in your own words would be appreciated and would demonstrate you understand your subject matter.

JeffLogan's picture

A reply to: And . . . Yes!

A reply to:

    And . . . Yes! . . . I did mean to give my affirmation to the Words of the Pope . . . but in the 'obedient' sense of that . . . and not because the Pope was making a dogmatic statement of Faith . . . as He probably was not doing so in this instance . . . but He did get it right . . . according to the Faith of which He is the Chief 'defender' of that Faith.

You're saying, "he did get it right" because he is the Pope not from any sense you have of what is truth, right? I mean, as a Catholic you cannot know what is truth unless the Church defines it for you. Am I correct? The Holy Spirit does not operator upon the Catholic laity as it does upon the hierarchy to lead them into truth, correct? So I cannot understand how you can have any sense of what is truth or error unless your church differentiates for you.

You have previously denied that as a Protestant I can have direct communion with God without going through the church. So I assume the same holds true for the Catholic laity--that they cannot be impressed by the Holy Spirit but must rely upon the hierarchy of the church. I believe that when the Lord said He would send another Comforter to lead us into all truth you understand that He only gave that promise to the Church leaders and not people in general. That is what I gather from your statements about Protestants who do not rely upon the Church for truth. Am I correct?

"Where two or three are gathered together in my name,
there am I in the midst of them." Viola! Church!
(Matt 18:20 (KJV))

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. -Proverbs 18:2 NIV