We're making big changes. Please try out the beta site at beta.ccel.org and send us feedback. Thank you!

Christ removes all barriers to catholicity of His church through faith

JeffLogan's picture

Thinking about Christ and how He breaks down all barriers and spoils all principalities and powers which prevent true universality, true catholicity, of His body, the church...

Has anyone ever considered that a living faith is not achieved by adding our works to our faith but rather, that faith is a gift from God which being quickened by the Holy Spirit produces obedience (good works)? (The keyword here is "quickened". It would serve you well to consult your Strong's Concordance.)

Think about this verse and tell me what it means:

    And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. -Acts 5:32 (KJV)

But first, before you answer, tell me what this means to demonstrate your wisdom:

    "Love means never having to say you're sorry." (Love Story, The movie.)

Does it mean...

    1) Love does nothing to warrant an apology

    2) Love takes no account of injury

    3) Other (explain)

Now answer the verse in question:

    And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. -Acts 5:32 (KJV)

Does it mean...

    1) God only gives His Holy Spirit to those who obey Him

    2) God gives His Holy Spirit to men so they might obey Him

    3) Other (explain)

This is a discovery exercise and not a theological debate. Opinions are welcomed but scriptural support would be even better. Be sure to interpret your scriptures so we can understand how you are using them. Commentaries may be insightful but a paraphrase in your own words would be appreciated and would demonstrate you understand your subject matter.

jwmcmac's picture

Jeff Posted: "A reply to:

Jeff Posted:

"A reply to: JqLogan quoted:
Submitted by JeffLogan on Sat, 2010-02-13 17:14.
A reply to: JqLogan quoted: "Pope John
Submitted by jwmcmac on Mon, 2009-11-30 02:40.

jwmcmac comments:

Thanks for quoting John Paul II.

He said it correctly.

Jeff said:

"jw, I hope you didn't mean to give your affirmation that what the Pope wrote was true. Because you have no authority to judge the words of your Pope. You are to accept them as truth without questioning. Perhaps it would have been less ambiguous if you had said, 'because the Pope said it I believe it is true'.

Protestants have a similar saying. We say, 'God said it. I believe it. And that settles it for me.'

jwmcmac comments:

We say that too . . . "GOD said it. I Believe it. And that settles it for me."

And . . . Yes! . . . I did mean to give my affirmation to the Words of the Pope . . . but in the 'obedient' sense of that . . . and not because the Pope was making a dogmatic statement of Faith . . . as He probably was not doing so in this instance . . . but He did get it right . . . according to the Faith of which He is the Chief 'defender' of that Faith.

I am under obedience to the Pope as my Spiritual Superior in religious matters of practice and Faith . . . just as to the President in matters of State.

In both of these . . . the Pope may be wrong . . . on some level . . . but I still owe obedience . . . as to a Spiritual Foster Father . . . just as I owe obedience to my earthly Father . . . whether or not I agree with him . . . this having little to do with the Faith but a lot to do with the office and where each of us is placed in this life by GOD's Providence

And . . . no . . . I do not accept everything a Pope says without question . . .

. . . but I accepting by affirmation and obedience . . . the Pope's Words of Faith and Teaching . . . especially and absolutely . . . when He is acting as the Bishop of the Whole Church and is intending to Teach the Whole Church a Truth of Faith and Morals, especially if this is in 'Definition' of that Truth.

. . . in all other matters . . . be they Spiritual or Civil . . . but those especially not concerning the Teaching of Faith or Morals . . . in all of these others . . . I may give my assent if I so desire . . . or I may not . . . just as to any other man on any other matter . . . especially if these are not concerning Faith or Morals.

It is not my desire to say that I obey CHRIST . . . when the only man on earth that I obey is myself.

I do not believe that CHRIST structured things in that manner . . . especially not so structuring HIS Church.

In Heaven, there is an order and a Hierarchy . . . so also in the Church on earth.

GOD Bless you and us all.