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Christ removes all barriers to catholicity of His church through faith

JeffLogan's picture

Thinking about Christ and how He breaks down all barriers and spoils all principalities and powers which prevent true universality, true catholicity, of His body, the church...

Has anyone ever considered that a living faith is not achieved by adding our works to our faith but rather, that faith is a gift from God which being quickened by the Holy Spirit produces obedience (good works)? (The keyword here is "quickened". It would serve you well to consult your Strong's Concordance.)

Think about this verse and tell me what it means:

    And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. -Acts 5:32 (KJV)

But first, before you answer, tell me what this means to demonstrate your wisdom:

    "Love means never having to say you're sorry." (Love Story, The movie.)

Does it mean...

    1) Love does nothing to warrant an apology

    2) Love takes no account of injury

    3) Other (explain)

Now answer the verse in question:

    And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. -Acts 5:32 (KJV)

Does it mean...

    1) God only gives His Holy Spirit to those who obey Him

    2) God gives His Holy Spirit to men so they might obey Him

    3) Other (explain)

This is a discovery exercise and not a theological debate. Opinions are welcomed but scriptural support would be even better. Be sure to interpret your scriptures so we can understand how you are using them. Commentaries may be insightful but a paraphrase in your own words would be appreciated and would demonstrate you understand your subject matter.

jwmcmac's picture

JqLogan, Like Dan, you have


Like Dan, you have such a bad opinion of the Church that you mis-apply Scripture in trying to go against her.

the passages you quoted to De Maria . . . were referencing and explaining that the old Law and Covenant 'restrictions' and 'practices' were null and void as no longer being 'required to do' by those of the New Covenant in the Body and Blood of CHRIST.

These passages cannot be applied to 'nix' any and all requirement of 'practice' and 'worship' which are bound on us by the Church of the New Covenant in the Blood of the LORD . . . as you have tried to so apply.

These passages of Scripture which you mis-apply to the Church . . . has not to do with the Church and the rules She lives by, which are primarily Spiritual Laws, but which also have some rules of 'practice' as well, which establishment of these 'rules' and/or 'practices' the LORD left to Her to bind and loose accordingly, leaving Her with the Authority to do so . . . which the Church quickly began to use . . . for the direction and eventual salvation of the souls left in Her care by CHRIST.

Remember, these are 'primarily' Spiritual rules and in that sense the Spiritual aspect of the rules are always of the prime import in any 'practices' or 'precepts' of the New Covenant which apply those Spiritual rules of Faith to the practices and precepts of the Church.

What many of us miss is that GOD applies HIS Truth and gives HIS Truth through men. HE always has and always will do this.

Yes! Men are inclined to mis-apply and are inclined to mis-understand what GOD has given them through the Church.

Yes! Men are inclined to add or subtract some of their own 'stuff' to those Spiritual and/or visible practices which bring these Spiritual Truths of CHRIST into our visible world . . . you and I included . . . doing this . . . and especially the Jew of the old covenant doing this . . . but none-the-less . . . GOD applies HIS Spiritual Truths through men in both a visible and invisible manner . . . in our day this visible and invisible manner being referred to as the Church.

However, many 'replace' the Church with 'their own mis-understanding' in all of these things and in all of these matters that concern the application of CHRIST's Spritual Truths into the visible world . . . as if CHRIST had rather said for us to . . . 'NOT' listen to anyone on earth other than to our own individual self . . . as we contemplate and read the Holy Scripture . . . interpreting it for ourselves . . . as to how we will apply these Spiritual Truths to the visible world in which we were created and made to exist . . .

. . . you seeming to imply that . . . in practice . . . that we should 'not listen' to any visible person or authority other than to ourself . . . especially seeming to say . . . DO NOT 'listen to the Church' . . . which is exactly the opposite of what Scripture says to do in these matters.

. . . and even better it seems that you imply that . . . if we can find a few who will agree with us to practice these Truths in a way which seems right to our group . . . bearing in mind that we must always be True to our own private interpretive self in doing all of these things . . . that we will be sure to break away from this 'church' if we should determine, on our own interpretation, that that group is getting too 'legalistic' in any way that we don't agree with . . . as we see and interpret this.

That's what you are saying . . . at least in the practice of what you constantly are preaching and teaching here at this site in your 'rejecting' of the Church and your touting of Scripture in place of the Church . . . but what you really mean by Church Practice . . . is whatever you can come up with privately in the private interpretation of those Scriptures . . . as seems right to you, individually.

But . . .

That is not the Church which CHRIST built on the Apostles and which HE sent into the world to Teach and Preach 'All things whatsoever' HE had commanded them to Teach and to Preach.

What you are really talking about and preaching is . . . as regards Church . . . is . . .

The Church of one . . . the Church of you, yourself and you . . . practicing as you wish and as you desire.

I know you can't see this the way that I do.

I am smack-dab in the middle of the One Only instituted and Built-upon the Apostles and Peter the Rock Church that walks and talks with the Authority of CHRIST.

If this type of Church is what you reject . . . than I believe that your bone to pick is with CHRIST . . . because that is the way HE did it . . . at least as I see it.

And this is the manner in which HE has always done it.

Yes! the Spiritual is the more important. But the visible is absolutely necessary and the Church is the extension of CHRIST in the world . . . and sometimes CHRIST may look and be in very bad shape . . . but non-the-less . . . HE and HIS Church are One . . . visible and invisible . . . and they both speak with the same Authority as to the Spiritual and the visible aspects of things in this Life . . . thus the need for the Church to be Sacramental . . . which are little weddings of nature and of SuperNature.

GOD Bless you and us all.