We're making big changes. Please try out the beta site at beta.ccel.org and send us feedback. Thank you!

One Flesh Union - Christ and the Church

De Maria's picture

What is the One Flesh Union concerning Christ and the Church?

I have posted a version of this question in the Biblical Studies because I believe it is a beautiful question to ponder. And another version in the interdenominational Discussions to see how we view this mystery as expressed in the Sacrament of Matrimony differently.

But I have really been waiting patiently and anxiously for quite a long time to post this particular question on this forum because in another discussion here, the Catholic view of the One Flesh Union between Christ and the Church was called blasphemous. Specifically this teaching from the Catechism.

795 Christ and his Church thus together make up the "whole Christ" (Christus totus). The Church is one with Christ. The saints are acutely aware of this unity:

Let us rejoice then and give thanks that we have become not only Christians, but Christ himself. Do you understand and grasp, brethren, God's grace toward us? Marvel and rejoice: we have become Christ. For if he is the head, we are the members; he and we together are the whole man. . . . The fullness of Christ then is the head and the members. But what does "head and members" mean? Christ and the Church.

Our redeemer has shown himself to be one person with the holy Church whom he has taken to himself.

Head and members form as it were one and the same mystical person.

A reply of St. Joan of Arc to her judges sums up the faith of the holy doctors and the good sense of the believer: "About Jesus Christ and the Church, I simply know they're just one thing, and we shouldn't complicate the matter."

Our understanding of the One Flesh Union between Christ and the Church is based upon this verse.
Ephesians 5:
30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Now, it seems to me that our understanding lines up pretty well with Scripture.

And so, I posted this particular thread to see how your views contrast with the Catholic view of this greatest and most wonderful of mysteries.


De Maria

De Maria's picture

re:re:re:re: re: difference between "In Christ" and "being Chris

Mike said,

Interesting, you accuse me of prejudice and your evidence is based on an assumption. I only considered what you offered in this thread.

DM said,
The basic difference between you and I in this specific discussion is that you don't recognize or acknowledge your prejudices. Whereas I recognize and acknowledge mine.

You claim you have none. I know I have many. And I won't give up my prejudices until someone proves them wrong.

Mike says,
Until now, I didn't think that being prejudiced was somethimg to be proud of ... let me think about that.

I don't know what you mean by being proud of a prejudice. Prejudices can be good and bad. To me, a prejudice is simply a generalization or a presupposition. We make them all the time. Well, I know I do. And they have served me well. I can generalize, for example, that a Protestant is a Bible only believer. I can presuppose that they do not accept the authority of the Church or Tradition. These are prejudices of mine which I know are usually accurate. Some Lutherans, for example, hold traditions to a certain extent. So, my prejudice about Lutherans has failed when speaking to some of them.

My prejudices are a tool which I use to evaluate a situation with minimal data, then after receiving more data, I can either discard the prejudice and make a new one, or confirm that prejudice in the current situation.

A prejudice is a preconceived belief, opinion, or judgment toward a group of people or a single person because of race, social class, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, age, disability, political beliefs , religion, line of work or other personal characteristics. It also means a priori beliefs (without knowledge of the facts) and includes "any unreasonable attitude that is unusually resistant to rational influence."[1] Although positive and negative prejudice both exist, when used negatively, "prejudice" implies fear and antipathy toward such a group or person.
Cognitive Prejudice refers to what people believe to be true: for example, in adherence to a particular metaphysical or methodological philosophy at the expense of other philosophies which may offer a more complete theoretical explanation.
Affective Prejudice refers to what people like and dislike: for example, in attitudes toward members of particular classes such as race, ethnicity, national origin, or creed.
Behavioral Prejudice refers to how people are inclined to behave. It is regarded as an attitude because people do not act on their feelings. An example of conative prejudice may be found in expressions of what should be done if the opportunity presents itself....


Mike said,
I personnally believe that "because the Bible says so" is a better springboard.
There is a simple song we teach children ...
"Jesus loves me this I know ... the bible tells me so"

DM said,
Except that Protestants doctrines are not in Scripture.

Mike said,
"Jesus loves me" is a pretty basic doctrine that most would agree with, catholic or protestant.

That is true.

This discussion is rapidly deteriorating.

We can end it whenever you like.

Mike said,
Where did I even say that I was a catholic?

DM said,
Let me look that up. When you said:
I come from a community of RC's

Mike says,

I now see why you mis-understood that.

I still live in a community of RC's, and I am not RC.

If being born in a garage makes you a car, then you can say that I was a catholic.

Non sequitur! ; )

Cars aren't born, they are manufactured. Cars are not living, organic beings.

Only animals and humans are born and they can be born in garages or anywhere. But I'm just joking.

Just for the record, I was raised in a roman catholic home.

And you remain a neophyte in Catholic doctrine. ; )

I had no affection for God or the church ...

Been there. Born in a Catholic home, raised by Catholics, detested God and Church, then discovered God again, came back to God through Protestant doctrine, but I couldn't swallow the doctrine of Scripture alone, no matter how much I wanted it to be right. Studied other religions, especially Islam, but there were too many errors and contradictions. So, reluctantly, turned back to the Catholic Church, studied Catholic doctrine and became firmly convinced that the Catholic Church is the True Church of God.

More accurately put, I wasn't a christian.

Were you baptized in a Catholic Church either as an infant or as a youth?

I'm only asking, because if you were, the Catholic Church considered you Christian and it goes without saying, Catholic.

God bless your rest De Maria.

Thank you. May God bless you as well Mike.


De Maria