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One Flesh Union - Christ and the Church

De Maria's picture

What is the One Flesh Union concerning Christ and the Church?

I have posted a version of this question in the Biblical Studies because I believe it is a beautiful question to ponder. And another version in the interdenominational Discussions to see how we view this mystery as expressed in the Sacrament of Matrimony differently.

But I have really been waiting patiently and anxiously for quite a long time to post this particular question on this forum because in another discussion here, the Catholic view of the One Flesh Union between Christ and the Church was called blasphemous. Specifically this teaching from the Catechism.

795 Christ and his Church thus together make up the "whole Christ" (Christus totus). The Church is one with Christ. The saints are acutely aware of this unity:

Let us rejoice then and give thanks that we have become not only Christians, but Christ himself. Do you understand and grasp, brethren, God's grace toward us? Marvel and rejoice: we have become Christ. For if he is the head, we are the members; he and we together are the whole man. . . . The fullness of Christ then is the head and the members. But what does "head and members" mean? Christ and the Church.

Our redeemer has shown himself to be one person with the holy Church whom he has taken to himself.

Head and members form as it were one and the same mystical person.

A reply of St. Joan of Arc to her judges sums up the faith of the holy doctors and the good sense of the believer: "About Jesus Christ and the Church, I simply know they're just one thing, and we shouldn't complicate the matter."

Our understanding of the One Flesh Union between Christ and the Church is based upon this verse.
Ephesians 5:
30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Now, it seems to me that our understanding lines up pretty well with Scripture.

And so, I posted this particular thread to see how your views contrast with the Catholic view of this greatest and most wonderful of mysteries.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Mike Kirby's picture

re:re:re: re: difference between "In Christ" and "being Christ"

DM said,

Everything needs to be interpreted. Even your own interpretations of Scripture need to be interpreted.

But the interpretations of the Catholic Church have the guarantee of the Holy Spirit, since the Catholic Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth. And whether you understand Catholic Doctrine or not, you can be assured that Catholic Doctrine is correct. Scripture attests to that fact.

Mike said,
Do you have the guarantee of the HOLY SPIRIT that your interpretation of church doctrine is correct?

DM said,

You seem to be prejudiced against prejudice in general. But I am not. I find my prejudices to be very useful sometimes. In fact, most of the time.

Mike says,
Interesting position, your prejudices are better than mine!

Mike said,

I don't think I am, (prejudiced) can you point out where I have been?

DM said,
In this case, it seems obvious, you took one Catechism document, and I assume you read the false interpretations of that document offered by anti-Catholics and you believed them.

Mike says,

Interesting, you accuse me of prejudice and your evidence is based on an assumption.
I only considered what you offered in this thread.

Mike said,
When asked why they felt that way, all that could be mustered up is "because the priest said so".

DM says,
What's the difference between that and the Protestant who says, "because the Bible says so."

Mike says,
I personnally believe that "because the Bible says so" is a better springboard.
There is a simple song we teach children ...
"Jesus loves me this I know ... the bible tells me so"

DM said,
Compare to your situation. You are only an authority about what you believe and intepret in Scripture. Because you believe in Sola Scriptura. Therefore, your catechism is between your ears.

Mike says,
Anybody's catechism, or the bible for that matter, can be in between their ears only.
Which is the reason for belonging to the church, the mystical body. Therein Christ is in your heart and then you will have the mind of Christ!

Mike said,
I know that those bad attributes are not exclusively characteristic of any denomination but are characteristic of the fallen nature of man.
DM said,
Well said, so why did you insinuate that you had those attributes because you were Catholic?

Mike says,
Where did I even say that I was a catholic?
Read carefully, I had those attributes because of my fallen nature ..... Why do you hear otherwise ... ?

Mike quoted,
"Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith." Hebrews 13:7

DM said,
You were following the example of people that curse and cuss and behave like reprobates and you want to blame the Catholic Church?

Mike says,
Why do you think I was blaming anyone?
Actually I used those words to describe myself and my fallen nature before Jesus changed my life and "added me to His church" and somehow this is the conclusion you have arrived?

DM said,
and you interpret this Scripture to mean that ANYONE whom you meet is your leader in the faith?

Mike says,
The verse says to me that a leader should have works to prove their faith.

DM said,
Mike, your prejudices are showing.

Mike says,
Does your interpretation tell you that they are good or bad?

Mike
-----
"Divine Grace is not opposed to effort ...
it is opposed to earning "
— Dallas Willard

Mike
-----
"Divine Grace is not opposed to effort ...
it is opposed to earning "
— Dallas Willard




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