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One Flesh Union - Christ and the Church

De Maria's picture

What is the One Flesh Union concerning Christ and the Church?

I have posted a version of this question in the Biblical Studies because I believe it is a beautiful question to ponder. And another version in the interdenominational Discussions to see how we view this mystery as expressed in the Sacrament of Matrimony differently.

But I have really been waiting patiently and anxiously for quite a long time to post this particular question on this forum because in another discussion here, the Catholic view of the One Flesh Union between Christ and the Church was called blasphemous. Specifically this teaching from the Catechism.

795 Christ and his Church thus together make up the "whole Christ" (Christus totus). The Church is one with Christ. The saints are acutely aware of this unity:

Let us rejoice then and give thanks that we have become not only Christians, but Christ himself. Do you understand and grasp, brethren, God's grace toward us? Marvel and rejoice: we have become Christ. For if he is the head, we are the members; he and we together are the whole man. . . . The fullness of Christ then is the head and the members. But what does "head and members" mean? Christ and the Church.

Our redeemer has shown himself to be one person with the holy Church whom he has taken to himself.

Head and members form as it were one and the same mystical person.

A reply of St. Joan of Arc to her judges sums up the faith of the holy doctors and the good sense of the believer: "About Jesus Christ and the Church, I simply know they're just one thing, and we shouldn't complicate the matter."

Our understanding of the One Flesh Union between Christ and the Church is based upon this verse.
Ephesians 5:
30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Now, it seems to me that our understanding lines up pretty well with Scripture.

And so, I posted this particular thread to see how your views contrast with the Catholic view of this greatest and most wonderful of mysteries.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Mike Kirby's picture

re: re: difference between "In Christ" and "being Christ"

Mike quoted,

The catechism says this,
795 Christ and his Church thus together make up the "whole Christ" (Christus totus). The Church is one with Christ. The saints are acutely aware of this unity:

Let us rejoice then and give thanks that we have become not only Christians (branches), but Christ (vine) himself.

DM said,
Ah, no. That is not how we view it.

Christ is the Head and we are the Body.

Therefore, we are the branches and He is the vine. We do not become the vine. He is the source of life. We do not survive unless we are united to the vine.

Mike says,
Now I understand you a little better.
I agree with you with that.

DM asks,
I have read the entire Catechism. Have you?

Mike says,
No. I understand it to be the RC interpretation of the bible, which in turn (apparently) needs to be interpreted.
And even that has a grid that is prejudiced.
I do enjoy and respect the interpretation of others about biblical matters but am careful about what I digest.

Mike quotes item 795
"About Jesus Christ and the Church, I simply know they're just one thing, and we shouldn't complicate the matter."

Why do you complicate it?

DM says,
I don't.

Mike says,
It seems like it sometimes.

DM says,
It is you who have complicated the matter,

Mike says,
Perhaps, communicating something (a mystery)
that can't communicated properly I suppose can be at times confusing.

DM said,
being a neophyte in Catholic doctrine,

Mike says,
No need to consider me a "neophyte in Catholic doctrine",
my faith in Christ and His work in me has converted, convinced and persuaded me that I am already a member of His body, the church. I do fall prey to it somethimes but I try to avoid great discussion about carnal divisions that exist in the body. The Body is already ONE, "this saint is acutely aware of this unity".

I do enjoy dialoging with you and others about your relationship with Him.
Many times and about many things I just have to say this,
"not wrong, just different".

DM said,
you have understood it based upon your prejudices and preconceptions.

Mike says,
I don't know why you would say that I am prejudiced. I don't think I am, can you point out where I have been?
I will self inventory on that anyway!
Anyway, disagreement is not a basis for prejudice.
Nevertheless, I have found though that when people make those sort of accusations, they are either guilty of them or will be.

DM,
But hey, that's what I'm here to do. To correct those false impressions.

Mike says,

Then, I your task is monumental because I think most false
impressions are derived from the testimony of people who are RC. You often boast about "we (RC's) believe" as if you are the authoritative spokeperson for RC belief. Perhaps you are, I don't know. I come from a community of RC's that teaches and have taught for generations that to be RC is the epitomy of christianity and to be other than RC is evil and is hellbound. When asked why they felt that way, all that could be mustered up is "because the priest said so".

I was an ungodly, cussing, worldly person and acceptable in my RC community until Jesus became the reason for my being, behavior and family, then I became "evil" in their eyes.

I know that those bad attributes are not exclusively characteristic of any denomination but are characteristic of the fallen nature of man.

"Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith."
Hebrews 13:7

Mike
-----
"Divine Grace is not opposed to effort ...
it is opposed to earning "
— Dallas Willard

Mike
-----
"Divine Grace is not opposed to effort ...
it is opposed to earning "
— Dallas Willard




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