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One Flesh Union - Christ and the Church

De Maria's picture

What is the One Flesh Union concerning Christ and the Church?

I have posted a version of this question in the Biblical Studies because I believe it is a beautiful question to ponder. And another version in the interdenominational Discussions to see how we view this mystery as expressed in the Sacrament of Matrimony differently.

But I have really been waiting patiently and anxiously for quite a long time to post this particular question on this forum because in another discussion here, the Catholic view of the One Flesh Union between Christ and the Church was called blasphemous. Specifically this teaching from the Catechism.

795 Christ and his Church thus together make up the "whole Christ" (Christus totus). The Church is one with Christ. The saints are acutely aware of this unity:

Let us rejoice then and give thanks that we have become not only Christians, but Christ himself. Do you understand and grasp, brethren, God's grace toward us? Marvel and rejoice: we have become Christ. For if he is the head, we are the members; he and we together are the whole man. . . . The fullness of Christ then is the head and the members. But what does "head and members" mean? Christ and the Church.

Our redeemer has shown himself to be one person with the holy Church whom he has taken to himself.

Head and members form as it were one and the same mystical person.

A reply of St. Joan of Arc to her judges sums up the faith of the holy doctors and the good sense of the believer: "About Jesus Christ and the Church, I simply know they're just one thing, and we shouldn't complicate the matter."

Our understanding of the One Flesh Union between Christ and the Church is based upon this verse.
Ephesians 5:
30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Now, it seems to me that our understanding lines up pretty well with Scripture.

And so, I posted this particular thread to see how your views contrast with the Catholic view of this greatest and most wonderful of mysteries.


De Maria

De Maria's picture

re: re: re:pruning is for the living, not the dead

DM said,

He doesn't say that He waits until they die on the vine.

Mike says,

They are just not "abiding" that's all... dead.

I don't see the word "abiding" there Mike. And if you read it carefully, they are "abiding" until the Father cuts them off.

DM said,

In fact, I think it would be impossible for them to die on the vine.

Mike says,

You need to be more sure than that.


DM says,

They die when they are cut off from the source of life.

Mike says,
So God will kill those who are sick?

God will punish those who don't produce fruit. Yes.

Anyway ... Please apply that philosophy to item 795! What kind of Christ is there that is unfruitful?

Unfortunately, Scripture is clear that many who believe they are Christians are unfruitful:
Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

DM said,

So, in my opinion, you are contradicting Scripture here.

Mike says,

I do respect your opinion, but scripture persuades me more than you.

As I yours. However, this verse is clear:
John 15
The Vine and the Branches
1"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit,

He cuts off the unhealthy plant that bears no fruit.

while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful.

He prunes the healthy plant which bears some fruit that it will become even healthier and bear more fruit.

This is confirmed elsewhere in Scripture:
Mark 4: 25For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.

Ephesians 5:29 "For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church"

But nourish and cherish does not extend to those who do not exercise their faith. Those are condemned.

De Maria.