One Flesh Union - Christ and the Church

De Maria's picture

What is the One Flesh Union concerning Christ and the Church?

I have posted a version of this question in the Biblical Studies because I believe it is a beautiful question to ponder. And another version in the interdenominational Discussions to see how we view this mystery as expressed in the Sacrament of Matrimony differently.

But I have really been waiting patiently and anxiously for quite a long time to post this particular question on this forum because in another discussion here, the Catholic view of the One Flesh Union between Christ and the Church was called blasphemous. Specifically this teaching from the Catechism.

795 Christ and his Church thus together make up the "whole Christ" (Christus totus). The Church is one with Christ. The saints are acutely aware of this unity:

Let us rejoice then and give thanks that we have become not only Christians, but Christ himself. Do you understand and grasp, brethren, God's grace toward us? Marvel and rejoice: we have become Christ. For if he is the head, we are the members; he and we together are the whole man. . . . The fullness of Christ then is the head and the members. But what does "head and members" mean? Christ and the Church.

Our redeemer has shown himself to be one person with the holy Church whom he has taken to himself.

Head and members form as it were one and the same mystical person.

A reply of St. Joan of Arc to her judges sums up the faith of the holy doctors and the good sense of the believer: "About Jesus Christ and the Church, I simply know they're just one thing, and we shouldn't complicate the matter."

Our understanding of the One Flesh Union between Christ and the Church is based upon this verse.
Ephesians 5:
30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Now, it seems to me that our understanding lines up pretty well with Scripture.

And so, I posted this particular thread to see how your views contrast with the Catholic view of this greatest and most wonderful of mysteries.


De Maria

De Maria's picture

re: Excellent points JQLOGAN

Good fight brother JQLOGAN. This group is again snared by the words of their own mouth. Just like everything every other significant doctrine, RCC changes what many of us would call Biblical Christology by adding Romish tradition to it.

The Catholic Church lives by God's Word and God's Word says that we live by Traditions:
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

It is the Protestants who deny Godly Traditions and add their own manmade traditions to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Manmade traditions like Scripture alone, Faith alone, Grace alone etc. etc.

I believe you were on teh right track by asserting the counfounding of the Persons of the Triune God is simular to the error before us (Christ = Church).

Whom was Saul persecuting?
Acts 9:4
And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

Christ or the Church?

By making the RCC the equivalent to Christ, RCC places itself under scriptural definition.

The Catholic Church is simply following Christ's lead. You, on the other hand, deny Christ.

The first 3 creeds of the catholic church (pre-Romish)

Romish is a pejorative which was started by Luther. The Catholic Church was instituted by Jesus Christ.

, taught the Father is God, the Son is God and the Spirit is God. Yet there is one God consisting of three Persons. One Being and three Persons. Yet there are not three gods but One.

All this you learned from the Catholic Church.

In Jn 17 Christ prayed to teh Father. Monarchian heresy would later confound the persons of Father and Son, and this took centuries to unravel. Christ would have never said "I am the Father".

John 14:9
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

The Father who said "this is my Son" did not say "this is ME hear ME." Why? Because the persons are not confounded. So it is with the Church (ekklesia or assembly of called out ones). We are united but our identity is not lost in Christ any more than His is in us.

And you are creating another straw man. The Church and Christ are one. But they are not confounded either. If you have confounded them, that is your personal problem.

The real awakening truth here is that Christ foretold those who would claim to be Christ !!!!

23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. 24 “For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 “Behold, I have told you in advance. 26 “So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them.
New American Standard Bible : 1995 update. 1995 (Mt 24:23-26). LaHabra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.

Except it is Scripture which says that the Church is Christ.
Ephesians 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Are you denying Scripture?

De Maria