Heaven or hell.

Dedesmond's picture

If a baby (child) died immediately after birth. Where will the child go?

JeffLogan's picture

To hell with children?

De Maria, doesn't the Catholic church teach that children who are not baptized go to hell? And, doesn't this then bypass the mercy of God and place all reliance upon works for salvation--that is, if the child is baptized it will be saved, but if it is not baptized then it will be damned? Thus,the importance of the closing remarks in the Catechism quote. "...to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism." They "hope" which suggests that Catholic doctrines offer no assurance outside of baptism.

Thus, this god which they have created is neither just nor merciful but is exacting and cruel for through no fault of the child or careless neglect of the parent the souls of children are placed in peril of eternal damnation in the torments of hell for the unthinkable and unpardonable sin of one single breath of life in this world. I do not worship nor would I praise a god like this.

My theology presents a more just and merciful God who does not torment babies in eternal hell fires for as long as God shall exist. In fact, no one will be tormented in hells fires for all eternity. The wicked will be consumed by fire but they will be burned up, consumed, and prerish. They will suffer eternal damnation in that there is no hope of life again after this second death by fire. But no one will burn eternally. Especially not innocent children.

    "I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life..." --Deut 30:19 (KJV)


    "the wages of sin is death..." --Romans 6:23 (KJV)


    "as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life." --John 3:14-15 (KJV)

So what happens to these children who die at birth? We are told that the children are sanctified by the parents.

    "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy." --1 Cor 7:14 (KJV)

It is my belief that children born to parents who are saved will be restored to them in the resurrection. And those babies who died at birth to ungodly parents will not be punished but simply not know life. Everyone is rewarded, or rather punished, according to their works. There will be some worthy of many stripes and some worthy of few.

    "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes." --Luke 12:47-48 (KJV)

Now I ask you, what sin has a little baby committed worthy of spending eternity in hell fire? It would have been better for that child to be aborted than to have taken one single breath of life only to spend all of eternity burning in the fires of hell for it. Such an hideous doctrine. I can think of nothing more evil, more satanic, more inhumane, more inhuman than burning someone in fire for all eternity. Yet, this is how the church has portrayed the God of love who gave His life to save His creation. And if we believe we were created in His image and we see Him in this light then no wonder we have inflicted such human suffering upon the world through our religious dogmas. No wonder we are "Okay" with a doctrine which teaches such torment.

Infant baptism, not being meritorious, is also contrary to God's will. It was God's will that man should have free choice. God would not have created man with free will if it was not according to His will. And, while God desires for all men to come to repentance and be saved He does nothing to force them to love and worship Him. Love demands choice and God is love. Therefore, God can only accept our willing worship and reciprocal love. To baptize infants before they are able to make that choice for themselves is nothing less than making that choice for them. They must be allowed to grow up and decide for themselves. And during their ignorant years when they do not know better God winks at, or excuses their sin because of their ignorance.

    "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" --Acts 17:30 (KJV)

But there comes a time of accoutablility when God calls all men to repent. But a child cannot repent until it can comprehend. And, forgiveness comes only through a proper and sincere repentance. Therefore, I conclude that baptism has nothing to do with whether or not a baby who dies at birth will be saved. Thus, it is all of God's mercy and nothing else. And, if the parents are saved then I believe this offers the baby assurance of salvation and that baby will be rejoined to its parents in heaven at the resurrection. Angels will retrieve the baby from the tomb and bring it to its mother's arms and then together they will ascend into the air to meet Jesus.

    "...the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:..." --1 Thess 4:16-17 (KJV)

It's important to note that the "Dead in Christ" "rise first." That is, they are resurrected. Then the resurrected and those who never died are "caught up together." That is, they ascend together up into the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. In other words, neither group precedes the other but they arise at the same time.

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“The path of true piety is so plain as to require
but little political direction.” --George Washington,
re: absence of "Jesus Christ" in U.S. Constitution.

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. -Proverbs 18:2 NIV