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Answering the charge of infidels against Christianity

JeffLogan's picture

There is a verse in the Bible which reads,

"These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me." John 16:1-3 (KJV)

The infidel claims that if not for Christian history we would not know the depths of depravity to which the human mind may descend. That Christian fellows, claiming to follow in the steps of their Lord, have exhausted the limits of human imagination dreaming up the worst atrocities to carry out on those who claim to be their brothers in Christ yet deny one or more tenets of a creed. That the lives of millions of men, women and children have been sacrificed to preserve a creed all in the name of a God who taught them to love their enemies and turn the other cheek. That in this life the church persecutes those who disagree with her doctrines and at death sends them on to her god to be tortured through-out eternity. A god whose appetite for revenge is implacable and whose love for torment insatiable.

My question is, in light of Christian history, its decretals, its current doctrines and attitudes, and the way in which we treat others who do not agree with us, how can we answer the charge of the Infidel? Have we fulfilled the command to love one another, or have we fulfilled John 16:1-3 in putting them out of our midst and even killing them. Of course, we are stayed by civil power today but the Infidel contends that had we the power we would today kill heretics as in times past. How can we justify our actions? How can we condemn radical Islam who is but following in our steps? How can we condemn Hitler's slaughter of Jews who are classed with Infidels?

I would like to hear your thoughts. I will share mine as well.

jwmcmac's picture

Jqlogan said:"A god that

Jqlogan said:

"A god that would torture an aborted baby in the fires of hell for all eternity due to circumstances beyond that "soul's" control. That is injustice!

But the True God is just and merciful--at the same time. God will destroy the wicked but not of revenge but out of mercy."

jwmcmac comments:

Sorry, Jq, but you don't know that . . . as to what is 'Justice' in GOD's way of seeing things . . . and your view also is not what the Bible says . . . as to eternal torment . . . so . . . there is no reason for you to come up with this way of seeing it.

Also, our 'Free-will' . . . is . . . by its very words . . . is beyond GOD's Control . . . so to speak . . . as HE will not go against our Free-will . . . in matters of Salvation . . . even if we go to hell for it . . . though GOD has provided the 'Way' out of our predicament through HIS SON . . . still . . . we have Free-will to reject this 'Offer of Salvation in CHRIST' . . . either rejecting this individually or collectively in Adam.

I believe that you are reasoning like men in this matter . . . and not like GOD . . . and not Scripturally . . . thus seeing what you want to see rather than what is clearly stated.

GOD Created men in HIS Image and Likeness . . . with an eternal Soul . . . which one day will also have an eternal Body to go with it into Heaven or hell . . . forever . . . just as GOD is forever and ever and ever . . . so shall we be and our Soul already is . . . made to last forever.

The Bible says . . .

St Matthew Chapter 18:

"8 And if thy hand, or thy foot scandalize thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee. It is better for thee to go into life maimed or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into everlasting fire."

GOD would cut off HIS Own arm if necessary . . . and yours and mine too . . . when it comes to Heaven and hell.

. . . and there are many such verses . . . referring to going into everlasting torment and/or going into eternal Life.

Your idea of 'Justice' is not necessarily the same as GOD's way of seeing this.

Look at the Cross . . . looking at this as an example . . .

Pick up our own cross and follow in HIS Footsteps . . . doing what HE did.

HE did not go through it so that we did not have to go through it . . . but only so that if we followed HIM in this . . . way of the Cross . . . we also might gain Salvation through HIM and because of HIM, without Whose Sacrifice none of our sacrifices would matter.

I'm going to get off into a tangent area here . . . sorry . . . if it offends . . . not meant for that . . . but came to mind here . . .

Also, it is not for any personal sin of their own that a baby might be in hell forever . . . but for the lack of Sanctifying Grace . . . which Adam and Eve lost for all of us . . . and which some parents do not provide to their children . . . thinking that CHRIST is 'obligated' to overcome their own neglect toward their own children . . . as to this necessity of Baptism.

Sorry, this thing about. . . 'not Baptising our babies' . . . is a 'peeve' with me . . . and I'm sure many do not Believe as do I on this matter . . . but . . .

We do each 'affect' . . . though we do not 'effect' . . . the outcome of each other's Salvation.

Due to Adam's sin and 'loss' (original sin) . . . if we are not Baptized into CHRIST . . . we are already damned . . . by our being in Adam.

Baptism is the entrance into full Unity with CHRIST . . . at least in 'seed' Sacramental form.

If we 'refuse' . . . and that is absolutely what it is . . . to my way of seeing it . . . it being our personal refusal of our parental responsibility . . . if we refuse to Baptize our babies . . . it is WE (each of we parents) who is at fault of not providing this FREE GIFT to our 'otherwise' innocent children . . . they being otherwise innocent . . . except for the sin of Adam which lies upon each of us from birth . . .

. . . we remaining in this state of damnation . . . from birth . . . until our Baptism into the Family of GOD in CHRIST . . . usually this being accomplished for babies at the hands of the Priest and our Parents and our God-parents . . . they being Baptized into CHRIST Sacramentally . . . as being made full members of a Family and Household of Faith . . . though they not yet 'explicitly' having professed . . . their parents, the Priest, and the God-parents and any attending community of Faith doing this for them at that time.

Babies totally rely on their parents and community . . . and they live or die at the hands of their care or neglect in all important matters.

We can't earn Salvation . . . baby or adult . . . but in order to receive the Free Gift of Salvation . . . we do have to be Baptized into it . . . in water and in the SPIRIT . . . Sacramentally . . . this being my Belief, Scripturally arrived at, though perhaps not yours . . . this being totally Scriptural none-the-less.

It is the very easiest thing in the world to do . . . to Baptize one's baby . . . even in the womb . . . if an emergency develops.

It is utter neglect and self-riteousnous or worse . . . it is 'presumption' . . . as I see this . . . which prevents many Christians from doing this Saving Act which is utterly simple and is a Free thing . . . so easily accomplished . . . for their children.

What a joy to be a parent who provides this Free Gift to their child . . . an utterly 'priceless' Gift . . . given Freely at the hands of Parents to their Child.

. . . We ARE our brother's and we are our children's keepers . . . and as a priestly people . . . we can provide this FREE . . . Sacramental . . . entrance to the Family of GOD . . . for our children . . . if we aren't so stubborn and prideful . . . placing it back on CHRIST even to overcome our own reticence and neglect in this matter . . . a reticence for what reason ? . . . for none . . . there being no good reason . . . in my view . . . to not Baptize one's child.

To me . . . there is not one good reason to not Baptize one's Christian infant.

Anyway . . .

We all believe pretty much whatever it is that we want to believe . . . regardless of Scripture or any other authority to the contrary . . . such as the Church and Her Teachings . . . or early Church Fathers or whatever . . .

. . . and this is just one of an infinite number of examples of this . . .

I know you may not agree . . . so be it.

GOD Bless you all and us all.




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