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Scripture and Tradition? Where does Tradition stand?

Loutzenhiser's picture

We will continue the 2 Tim and 1 Thess here. I will bring the last posts from each thread here.

Let me define the thread subject here. We all agree that Scripture is foundational to the church, but where does tradition stand and what tradition.

Some questions -

Is a tradition considered to be apostolical even though it is announced and defined at a later date?

Must a tradition have some other supporting evidence or is the church's "word" good enough for it to be considered canonical?

Is Dogma tradition or just a church's view?

What support must a tradition have to be canonical? (such as multi-church support?)

Are views and teachings about a tradition also tradition or just a church's opinion?

De Maria's picture

Robert, works on earth

Is clearly referring to man and his works here on earth.

That isn't under dispute. The question is, where and when does the testing by fire take place?

13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

If they are of God then God will reward you in the afterlife.

God will reward you in the after life. Very good. Will God also punish you in the after life?

If they are of man/self then your works will be burned up and you will not be rewarded (suffer loss) but the man will be saved. This is of course a very concise summation of a great book on faith and the works that are produced from faith.

But it also implies a judgement by fire. Some men's works will be burned, others rewarded.

"The primary Scriptural passage Catholics point to for evidence of Purgatory is 1 Corinthians 3:15, which says, “If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.” The passage (1 Corinthians 3:12-15) is using an illustration of things going through fire as a description of believers’ works being judged. If our works are of good quality “gold, sliver, costly stones,” they will pass through the fire unharmed, and we will be rewarded for them. If our works are of poor quality “wood, hay, and straw,” they will be consumed by the fire, and there will be no reward. The passage does not say that believers pass through the fire, but rather that a believer’s works pass through the fire.

Except for 1 Cor 15, which says that after the works are entirely burned up, the man will yet be saved, by fire.

Two scenarios are depicted:

14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

The man who has works left over. He will receive a reward above and beyond salvation.

15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

The man's whose works do not abide. He will be saved but will not receive a reward. And his salvation will be by fire, the man himself will be burned.

1 Corinthians 3:15 refers to the believer “escaping through the flames,” not “being cleansed by the flames.”"

It doesn't say "escaping through the flames." But even if it did, how many people have escaped through flames without being burned.

What is say is "saved as by fire". In other words, saved in a condition as though purified like by fire, such as the process used for expensive metals.