We're making big changes. Please try out the beta site at beta.ccel.org and send us feedback. Thank you!

Discussions on Jesus (combining Was Jesus God & Jesus in the Bread)

Loutzenhiser's picture

Both these threads are covering about the same territory now and getting long again. Continue both threads here.

duu1der's picture

WOW talk about not

WOW talk about not listening. And what a masterful job of wrongfully summarizing what I said.

While I will agree that God and the Holy Spirit are God, since God is spirit, what I said is that Jesus could not assume the authority of God EXCEPT that GOD EMPOWERED Him to do so.
God GAVE Jesus the right to act on behalf of God, but not as God, which is what scripture states.
Just as an emissary acts on behalf of the President of the United States, that does not make him the President.

Since you failed to accurately use the scripture in the 1st place, and you claim it's complete authority, you
since they were not only backed up by other scripture, but by logic as well as keeping in the context of what was said which also flows thoughout the scriptures, which you claim my is untrue.

ML said: "See your admission that he is empowered doesn't get around the fact that the actors in each rendition are equated and so are the same and if one of them is God then they are all God."

The problem with this statement is the actors are not equated. It never says that the "actors" are equal. It says that One actor - God - authorized another - His Son Jesus the Christ - to act on His behalf. Not as equal, but as EMPOWERED.

ML said: "we have the verses at John 5:25-29, 6:40, 44, Phil. 3:20-21 which say that Jesus Christ will raise the true believer so by equating the actions and the actors we have that Jesus (even as He is empowered by God - if that is your claim) is the same actor producing the same act so He too is God."
To be a math genius, and so gifted in logic, you seem to have missed the error of your own logic. Just because 2 are able to do the same thing does not make them the same, especially, if one has been GIVEN THE AUTHORITY to act as the other. What we have is a different actor given the authority to do the same act... thus 2 different actos, not the same.

ML said: "What I said had nothing to do with sides but points of interpreting scripture such that if a system could not provide an interpretation of even one verse of scripture that could be reconciled to that system then it could not stand."
And, as I've proven, your interpretation of scripture is taken out of context and misapplied, therefore, it cannot be reconciled by your system (unless of course your system is based on flawed logic, flawed contextual application, and (as proven above) totally unmindful of the proper relationship of natural power and empowerment).

ML said: "You cannot have it both ways - to claim Jesus is empowered to raise the true believer and then at the same time claim the verses do not say He is raising the true believer."

Which I never said, but, since you didn't post where I said that, the smoke screen you throw up is obvious. Again, your interpretation of what is said is flawed.