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Discussions on Jesus (combining Was Jesus God & Jesus in the Bread)

Loutzenhiser's picture

Both these threads are covering about the same territory now and getting long again. Continue both threads here.

duu1der's picture

You are absolutely right. I

You are absolutely right. I do not answer every verse of scripture you hold as "proof" that Jesus is God. I presented several very well respected theologians from various backgrounds whom you have dismissed because they do not agree with you.
Dr. E.W. Bullinger’s “A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament" is one of the most widely used sources by many theologians because of it's highly respected author, but, in all your pomp and arrogance you think you have the ability to argue with him and many others.
I have shown you proof in several ways that you choose to ignore and declare invalid.
I'm done. I choose not to continue this discussion not because you win, but because I obviously do not have the time that you do to justify every scripture you present.

Since you have equated Jesus to YAHWEH who "For I Yahweh do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed" does not change.. God can be no less than God and since God cannot be tempted by evil, Jesus could not be God.
Throughout your "proofs" your interpretation is riddled with assumption, which is not proof.

ML said: "In light of the foregoing, is it any wonder that the Church from its inception believed that the Lord Jesus Christ is Yahweh God Almighty".
Since this point has been so hotly contested for so many years, I guess all of the "church" didn't accept your proof.

Since, as many scholars, and theologians have stated emphatically, Jesus cannot be seen in the Old Testament unless you "assume" the one spoke to is Jesus, without fully understanding that many angels existed and to the people of the day they too would have been referred to as "god" since they were heavenly beings, your proof of Jesus being YAHWEH, a term many reputable scholars agree has never been applied to Jesus, is rendered meaningless. That is why I did not address each verse, especially since there are so many that could counter each, but unlike you, I have other things to do (although I honestly wish I didn't).

ML said: "Besides your new approach has an additional problem in that you now must be claiming that Jesus was a normal man, then at His baptism He was filled with the power of God but is still only a man, and then after He is risen THEN He becomes God?! Nonsense, we do not become God when we receive our glorified body – there is only one God!"
You must remember my position is that Jesus was not God but elevated to a position above all others and seated at the right hand of God, which is a place of honor, normally reserved for the most respected servant, but, not a position of equallity. It is God that elevated Jesus as seen in Isaiah 53: 1 Who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? 2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, And as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; And when we see Him, [There is] no beauty that we should desire Him. 3 He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, [our] faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. 4 Surely He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted. 5 But He [was] wounded for our transgressions, [He was] bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace [was] upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, And as a sheep before its shearers is silent, So He opened not His mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment, And who will declare His generation? For He was cut off from the land of the living; For the transgressions of My people He was stricken. 9 And they made His grave with the wicked -- But with the rich at His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor [was any] deceit in His mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put [Him] to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see [His] seed, He shall prolong [His] days, And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand. 11 He shall see the labor of His soul, [and] be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, And He shall divide the spoil with the strong, Because He poured out His soul unto death, And He was numbered with the transgressors, And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors."
Notice that it is God that says He is going to elevate His Servant who earned the position.

Since I can't devote enough time to pander to your request I will drop any further discussion. Not conceding the point, since as I said, your logic has not swayed my belief.