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Discussions on Jesus (combining Was Jesus God & Jesus in the Bread)

Loutzenhiser's picture

Both these threads are covering about the same territory now and getting long again. Continue both threads here.

michael_legna's picture

God can self limit any time He wants to and He remains God

duu1der said: "God is God. He will always be God and therefore can be nothing else but God. Jesus cannot be God since God cannot be tempted by sin."

ML said: "But man can be tempted by sin and if Jesus is both fully man and fully God and God does not choose to act like God (as we agreed He is capable of doing) then His divine nature would not step in and prevent His human nature from falling to temptation. Thus Jesus not sinning was all the work of His human nature and there was no cheating by relying on His divine nature as you think would deny His role as our savior."

duu1der said -
First, we agreed that God can "act" like anything, BUT, He is never less than God.

But He can act as less than Himself. In otherwords He does not have to flex all His power all the time. He promised not the destroy the world by flood and He won't even though He is still God and could if He wanted to. Sp as part of the miracle and covenant of the Incarnation He could have limited Himself to not use His all knowing wisdom and other aspects of the God head when His nature was in Jesus along with the human nature which made Jesus both fully man and fully God at the same time.

Now God does not stop being fully God when He does not destroy the world by flood and so He does not stop being fully God when He limits Himself to not using His divine attributes in form of the Incarnation.

duu1der said -
Second, you left out the part that if you declare that the 2 natures can act independently, there are 2 gods.

I didn't leave it out because it is not true. Jesus has two natures one divine (=God) and one human (mortal <> God).

duu1der said -
Since, as you claim, Jesus is God, He can be nothing less than God.

That is not true, that is your conclusion and it is based on your attempting to limit God with man's inferior logic. Jesus can be God and at the same time man, so He is God in one nature and something less (man) in the other.

duu1der said -
If His human nature falls outside of His divine nature, as you claim, then God is divisible.

No if His human nature falls outside His divine nature then man and God are divisible and I hope we both already knew that was true.

duu1der said -
Whether, as you say, God can chose to not act like God, in effect pulling the wool of humanities eyes, He is still God and thus cannot be tempted by the devil like the rest of humanity.

ML said: "But the divine nature was not tempted, it was the human nature which was tempted. So no problem here."

duu1der said -
NO there is a big problem with your thinking. If Jesus is ONE, His natures are connected.

And you base this claim on what? This one being with two natures does not imply a blending of the two. They are two distinct natures. Please provide some basis for your claim that these natures are connected. It is not either obvious or inherent or worthy of being taken on your authority alone.

duu1der said -
If God cannot be tempted by sin, then neither nature can be tempted, since as we agreed, God is still God whether He chooses to act like it or not (of course, I still don't understand how God can act like anything other than God).

No one nature can certainly be tempted while the other is not.

God can be God and not act like God (in the sense of using all His divine attributes) because He is all powerful and simply chooses to do this. That is how He limits Himself when He promised not to use His divine attribute of being all mighty and not destroy the world by flood ever again.