Loutzenhiser's picture

* "Transubstantiation" — the substance (fundamental reality) of the bread and wine is transformed in a way beyond human comprehension into that of the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ, but the accidents (physical traits, including chemical properties) of the bread and wine remain; this view is that taught by the Roman Catholic Church and by the Eastern Orthodox Synod of Jerusalem, and is held by many Anglicans, especially in Anglo-Catholic circles.
* "In, with and under the forms" — the body and blood of Jesus Christ are substantially present in, with and under the substance of the bread and wine, which remain. This is the view held by most Lutherans, and some Anglicans. Lutherans and non-Lutherans refer to this view as 'consubstantiation'. Although, for some, this term is difficult to understand, it remains the confessed understanding of the Lutheran faith.
* "Objective reality, but pious silence about technicalities" — the view of all the ancient Churches of the East, (including the Eastern Orthodox, the Oriental Orthodox, the Eastern Catholic Churches) and the Assyrian Church of the East as well as perhaps most Anglicans. These, while agreeing with the Roman Catholic belief that the sacrament is not merely bread and wine but truly the body and blood of Christ, and having historically employed the "substance" and "accidents" terminology to explain what is changed in the transformation, usually avoid this terminology, lest they seem to scrutize the technicalities of the manner in which the transformation occurs.
* "Real Spiritual presence", also called "pneumatic presence", holds that not only the Spirit of Christ, but also the true body and blood of Jesus Christ (hence "real"), are received by the sovereign, mysterious, and miraculous power of the Holy Spirit (hence "spiritual"), but only by those partakers who have faith. This view approaches the "pious silence" view in its unwillingness to specify how the Holy Spirit makes Christ present, but positively excludes not just symbolism but also trans- and con-substantiation. It is also known as the "mystical presence" view, and is held by most Reformed Christians, such as Presbyterians, as well as some Methodists and some Anglicans, particularly Low Church Reformed Anglicans. See Westminster Confession of Faith, ch. 29. This understanding is often called "receptionism". Some argue that this view can be seen as being suggested — though not by any means clearly — by the "invocation" of the Anglican Rite as found in the American Book of Common Prayer, 1928 and earlier and in Rite I of the American BCP of 1979 as well as in other Anglican formularies:

And we most humbly beseech thee, O merciful Father, to hear us, and of thy almighty goodness, vouchsafe to bless and sanctify, with thy Word and Holy Spirit, these thy gifts and creatures of bread and wine; that we, receiving them according to thy Son our Savior Jesus Christ's holy institution, in remembrance of his death and passion, may be partakers of his most blessed body and blood.

* "Symbolism" — the bread and wine are symbolic of the body and blood of Jesus Christ, and in partaking of the elements the believer commemorates the sacrificial death of Christ. This view is also known as "memorialism" and "Zwinglianism" after Ulrich Zwingli and is held by several Protestant and Latter-day Saint denominations, including most Baptists.
* "Suspension" — the partaking of the bread and wine was not intended to be a perpetual ordinance, or was not to be taken as a religious rite or ceremony (also known as adeipnonism, meaning "no supper" or "no meal"). This is the view of Quakers and the Salvation Army, as well as the hyperdispensationalist positions of E. W. Bullinger, Cornelius R. Stam, and others.

What is your position on this subject and how do you support it scripturally?

jwmcmac's picture

Just a few theological

Just a few theological thoughts as to the Eucharist . . . for clarity as to Catholic Belief on this matter . . .

The unbloody Sacrifice . . .

. . . The time and eternity Sacrificial Bread of Life . . . now veiled . . . later face to Face . . .

. . . The Memorial Meal which Sacramentally shows forth and makes Sacramentally Present the CHRIST slain at Calvary as ONE with the Eternally Sacrificed Second Person of the Blessed Trinity . . . WHO is the LAMB Slain before the foundation of the World . . . making this Reality Present under the form of Bread and Wine of Sacrifice.

. . . Justice and Peace have kissed in the Person of the Incarnate GOD/Man . . . the Incarnate GOD/Man WHO says that HIS Body is real Meat and HIS Blood is real Drink and that the Consecrated Bread and Wine are these . . . these being His actual Sacrificed and Glorified Body and Blood . . . this change of Reality taking place immediately following the words of Consecration said by one of HIS Priests over these Sacred Species of Bread and Wine . . . and this Reality remaining for as long as the Sacred Species is/are intact.

But we would have to accept the authority of the Church to ever agree on any of this.

No strictly Bible-only Believer will ever completely agree with another Bible-only Believer on every point of Doctrine concerning this Teaching of the Eucharist or even on what is Doctrine concerning this Teaching of the Eucharist. These are Eucharistic Mysteries which have to be revealed and accepted on Faith.

Unity of Doctrinal Belief definitely does not exist in the Bible-only world.

Only a Church Body can have such a Unity of Doctrinal Belief . . . as these have an Authority and a Faith context with which and in which to interpret the Scripture.

These Doctrines only find Unity of Belief and make Unified sense only if we have an Obedient and Revealed to us Faith . . . because these Doctrinal Mysteries go beyond the natural abilities of our senses to discern or detect. But these are not against reason or logic or intellect or any of the Truths of this Life . . . though logic or reason or intellect may at times appear to be in contradiction to the Revealed Truths of Faith because of the ‘Way’ we choose to ‘see’ this world.

Actually, Faith often ‘Reveals’ truths of this Life to us that we would have easilly missed if relying only upon our senses alone.

But WHO Speaks for CHRIST in Revealing HIS Truths? Great question. You guys know who I Believe Speaks for CHRIST . . . but that’s me.

There are always at least two sets of eyes . . . two Ways of seeing. Either there is One only Church Which has the Authority to say and to Teach the correct and only Eucharist or there is not. It makes sense to me that there be only One Church which Speaks for CHRIST and has the entirety of HIS Revealed Truth in Her Doctrine. You all know which Church that is from my perspective and Belief. I know you don’t agree. I accept that.

As to intellect . . . Intellect can bring us to the door of these Mysteries of Faith . . . but we can't cross the threshold without eyes lighted by Faith and Grace.

Catholics are greatly Blessed in ‘knowing’ their Revealed Faith.

Catholics 'know' what we must Believe . . . even if we choose not to Believe. That is CHRIST's Way. JESUS does not leave us in doubt about such things. HE gives a clear choice . . . as clear as is humanly possible while still requiring Faith and Grace to get us through the door.

The Eucharist is above all a Sacrifice.

So Communion with CHRIST in the Eucharist requires above all . . . Sacrifice from us as well . . . the Sacrifice of our ego and of our will . . . Sacrifice requires humility . . . humility requires Sacrifice . . . Sacrifice requires Love . . . Love requires Sacrifice. Virtue begets Virtue . . . and Loving Sacrifice is the foundation of Virtue.

I know that what I have said is not big on sense . . . these things almost appearing to go against good sense.

GOD Bless you and me and us all.