Communion/Eucharist

Loutzenhiser's picture

* "Transubstantiation" — the substance (fundamental reality) of the bread and wine is transformed in a way beyond human comprehension into that of the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ, but the accidents (physical traits, including chemical properties) of the bread and wine remain; this view is that taught by the Roman Catholic Church and by the Eastern Orthodox Synod of Jerusalem, and is held by many Anglicans, especially in Anglo-Catholic circles.
* "In, with and under the forms" — the body and blood of Jesus Christ are substantially present in, with and under the substance of the bread and wine, which remain. This is the view held by most Lutherans, and some Anglicans. Lutherans and non-Lutherans refer to this view as 'consubstantiation'. Although, for some, this term is difficult to understand, it remains the confessed understanding of the Lutheran faith.
* "Objective reality, but pious silence about technicalities" — the view of all the ancient Churches of the East, (including the Eastern Orthodox, the Oriental Orthodox, the Eastern Catholic Churches) and the Assyrian Church of the East as well as perhaps most Anglicans. These, while agreeing with the Roman Catholic belief that the sacrament is not merely bread and wine but truly the body and blood of Christ, and having historically employed the "substance" and "accidents" terminology to explain what is changed in the transformation, usually avoid this terminology, lest they seem to scrutize the technicalities of the manner in which the transformation occurs.
* "Real Spiritual presence", also called "pneumatic presence", holds that not only the Spirit of Christ, but also the true body and blood of Jesus Christ (hence "real"), are received by the sovereign, mysterious, and miraculous power of the Holy Spirit (hence "spiritual"), but only by those partakers who have faith. This view approaches the "pious silence" view in its unwillingness to specify how the Holy Spirit makes Christ present, but positively excludes not just symbolism but also trans- and con-substantiation. It is also known as the "mystical presence" view, and is held by most Reformed Christians, such as Presbyterians, as well as some Methodists and some Anglicans, particularly Low Church Reformed Anglicans. See Westminster Confession of Faith, ch. 29. This understanding is often called "receptionism". Some argue that this view can be seen as being suggested — though not by any means clearly — by the "invocation" of the Anglican Rite as found in the American Book of Common Prayer, 1928 and earlier and in Rite I of the American BCP of 1979 as well as in other Anglican formularies:

And we most humbly beseech thee, O merciful Father, to hear us, and of thy almighty goodness, vouchsafe to bless and sanctify, with thy Word and Holy Spirit, these thy gifts and creatures of bread and wine; that we, receiving them according to thy Son our Savior Jesus Christ's holy institution, in remembrance of his death and passion, may be partakers of his most blessed body and blood.

* "Symbolism" — the bread and wine are symbolic of the body and blood of Jesus Christ, and in partaking of the elements the believer commemorates the sacrificial death of Christ. This view is also known as "memorialism" and "Zwinglianism" after Ulrich Zwingli and is held by several Protestant and Latter-day Saint denominations, including most Baptists.
* "Suspension" — the partaking of the bread and wine was not intended to be a perpetual ordinance, or was not to be taken as a religious rite or ceremony (also known as adeipnonism, meaning "no supper" or "no meal"). This is the view of Quakers and the Salvation Army, as well as the hyperdispensationalist positions of E. W. Bullinger, Cornelius R. Stam, and others.

What is your position on this subject and how do you support it scripturally?

Mike Kirby's picture

Bless the Body, Bless the Head, Curse the Body, Curse the Head.

How we treat the Body of Christ reflects our treatment and respect for Christ.

Acts 9:1 Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest
2 and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
3 As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. 4. Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?"

Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Proverbs 14:31 He who oppresses the poor reproaches his Maker, But he who honors Him has mercy on the needy.

Bless the Body, Bless the Head. Curse the Body, Curse the Head.

Michael said,
This argument is not only wrong because of your erroneous extension of scripture, but is also a mute point because an anathema is not a curse. So just placing an anathema on someone who has denied a doctrine of the Gospel is not the same as cursing them, and it is certainly not the same as calling Jesus accursed.

Mike says,

I see why we have a difference of opinion about the Council’s judgment. You obviously you have a different personal interpretation of the word anathema/accursed and the Council's statement, that's all.

Strong’s Word 331 is the same word anathema, accursed.

You promulgate that the RC system is the one true system by apostolic succession and the laying on of hands and appointing and ordaining priests etc, etc. To have a hope of being saved in your system means being baptized to receive the Holy Spirit and without the Holy Spirit baptism No one is in the body of Christ. Outside of that system, all others are false. That’s what I hear you say. So it would be natural to believe that to be anathamized from that system would be to be excluded from the body of Christ, which is the greatest curse one could have on their life.

But then you also believe that a person CAN be a born-again, spirit filled Christian outside the RC system.

If a person can be born again and spirit filled outside the RC system, then where is the authority?

Not totally in an institution, I agree there is some, but final authority is in the Word.

And don't give me the confusion bit outside that exists outside of the RCC. There is just as much confusion and unbelief in the RC system as there is outside of it.

I think the Pope is addressing that now right? (Cafeteria Catholics)

Mike
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Holiness isn't measured by the distance you keep from the world and it's ways ...
it's measured by your nearness to God"

Mike
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"Divine Grace is not opposed to effort ...
it is opposed to earning "
— Dallas Willard




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