Leave your thoughts on De Servo Arbitrio “On the Enslaved Will” or The Bondage of Will here
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EDITED BY MODERATOR
I reiterate that I will not allow attacks in the forums against other posters or denominations/sects. It is not our job to point fingers because we think the other person is wrong. Please see posting policy at http://www.ccel.org/node/546 and discontinue your personal opinion equating as idolaters all but those who agree with your view which while one of several views found at ccel is just that : one of serveral in a mutltidenominational setting.
Also, from an historical perspective you might also look at Luther's "Against the Heavely Prophets" where he defends catholicism and the pope against the untrue charges of idolatry when the "heavenly prophets" or charismatics of that time were tearing down statues. Note that while finding many faults with the papal system Luther did NOT believe statues should be tore down as the contemporary charismatics were doing, and did not believe such statues were idols. While maintaining that there was no spiritual value in the remnants of old dead bones and statues, Luther did not see them as idols. Nor did Luther believe in changing people's religion by force.
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... as an Augustinian-Lutheran Reformation charismatic I find it often curious how those who claim to follow Scripture pretend it rejects the charismata of 1 Corinthians & Acts, directly contradicting the Apostle Paul (and others) when in 1 Corinthians 12:31 he specifically not only says for them earnestly to desire the greater gifts (ζηλουτε δε τα χαρισματα τα μειζονα) but goes to great lengths to describe them and the means for their pursuit and apprehension. I frequently weary of how non-charismatics pretend their allegedly "biblical" opposition to spiritual gifts
(including the humbing/offending "tongues" that is often the key to unlocking the others by breaking/humbling the usually arrogant, obstinate bearer in removing his fallen mind's control of his tongue for Holy Spirit use)
isn't really based on man's pride and tradition, as with the Pharisees, who also resisted the Holy Spirit, as Jesus said in John 8, especially 8:34-58 (Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Every one that committeth sin is the bondservant of sin. 35 And the bondservant abideth not in the house for ever: the son abideth for ever. 36 If therefore the Son shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed: yet ye seek to kill me, because my word hath not free course in you. 38 I speak the things which I have seen with my Father: and ye also do the things which ye heard from your father. 39 They answered and said unto him, Our father is Abraham. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I heard from God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the works of your father. They said unto him, We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. 45 But because I say the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convicteth me of sin? If I say truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God. 48 The Jews answered and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a demon? 49 Jesus answered, I have not a demon; but I honor my Father, and ye dishonor me. 50 But I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. 51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my word, he shall never see death. 52 The Jews said unto him, Now we know that thou hast a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my word, he shall never taste of death. 53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, who died? and the prophets died: whom makest thou thyself? 54 Jesus answered, If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing: it is my Father that glorifieth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God; 55 and ye have not known him: but I know him; and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be like unto you, a liar: but I know him, and keep his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it, and was glad. 57 The Jews therefore said unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I AM.), ending with the profound, ineffable I AM of His Divinity, and Stephen said in Acts 7:51: "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Spirit: as your fathers did, so do ye."
And of course equally proud charismatics return the favor by using their spiritual gifts to rebel against The very Word of The Holy Spirit whose gifts they claim!, thereby proving why the Apostle compares being drunk with wine with the Holy Spirit's manifestations, as easily as He overloads our pitiably weak frames of dust in those manifestations (Ps 103:13-14).
Truly I'm a man without a country most of the time, looking across the marvelous landscape of God's awesome manifestations in His Church so afflicted with the bondage of blindness from intolerent traditions of mere men arrogantly to exclude one another contrary to the very God Whose Word they pretend to confess, as did Jesus's disciples in Mark 9:39 "But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man who shall do a mighty work in my name, and be able quickly to speak evil of me. 40 For he that is not against us is for us." One of Augustine's great strengths as a former Montanist is how he was graced by the Holy Spirit both to embrace the Montanist Holy Spirit manifestations AND Holy Scripture, by which he retained the power while excluding the error, keeping the baby but not the bathwater, unlike most today who seem to require discarding both, also contradicting Jesus in Matthew 13:28-30: "28 And he said unto them, An enemy hath done this. And the servants say unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them [the tares] up? 29 But he saith, Nay; lest haply while ye gather up the tares [zizanion, -ia], ye root up the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather up first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn." and in Matthew 10:22; 24:13: "he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved." Ironic how our imagined quest for the importance of doctrinal purity can too easily lead us to reject the very Word of God by so blindly trying to remove what we've so sure are the tares before the harvest. Kyrie eleison!